Trudy Scott: Welcome to The Healing Pain Summit. I’m Trudy Scott food expert, certified nutritionist, and host of the anxiety summit and I’m here to interview Dr. Joe Tatta, your host of the Healing Pain Summit. I have spoken on a prior Healing Pain Summit and Dr. Joe Tatta has spoken on one of my anxiety summits and uh, it’s a real pleasure to be here to interview you today. Joe,
Dr. Joe Tatta: thanks so much for being a treat. I really appreciate you taking the time to interview me and to contribute to the summit.
Trudy Scott: It’s a really exciting, it’s really exciting because this, this topic is so needed and you’ve got your book coming out and you just so active in bringing awareness to the need to be able to deal with pain in a more natural approach that people can get real solutions and not feel pain constantly. And it’s just really great. And I’d like to just read your bio here for people who may not know who you are. Dr Joe Tatta is adopter physical therapy board certified nutrition specialist and functional medicine practitioner who specializes in treating system pain and lifestyle related metabolic and order immune health issues. His mission is to create a new paradigm around treating persistent pain and reverse our global pain epidemic is that creates a of the healing pain summit which is so exciting to get started with. And the healing pain podcast designed to broaden the conversations around natural strategies towards solving persistent pain. Talk to touch as the author of the soon to be released book heal your pain now revolutionary program to reset your brain and body for a pain free lap at that at a cafe press. He’s currently in private practice in New York city and also provides online health consulting to help people achieve the optimal level of activity and freedom from chronic disease. And you can learn email@example.com. Firstly I just want to say congratulations on your upcoming book. That is just wonderful.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Thank you Trudy. I know, um, you know you’ve been a big inspiration to me cause obviously you’ve had your own summits and me creating my first summit, you and I spoke about it so I was like I’m going to create a summit as well around this topic and you have a book previously also. So I’m, I’m, I’m right on your heels.
Trudy Scott: Good. And it’s just a wonderful way to reach people with this information. So I applaud you for the work that you’re doing and really like you to give us a summary of what’s occurred since your first summit. Some people may be here for the first time, others may have tuned into your first summit and I think getting an update on what’s happened since then would be good. I’d like to hear a little bit about what shifted in your lab and what else did you can share. This will get people up to speed.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. So let me first thank everyone, you know, signed on for the second seminar. I now have, you know, an official tribe of both clinicians as well as people that are seeking pain relief that now follow me, you know, through my newsletter. They follow my Facebook page, they follow me on all my social media. So I want to thank everyone because it’s obviously a really important topic. Um, you know, I did this, I did the first paint summit last year in September for national pain month cause every, every September is national pain month and I really didn’t know what to expect. I really didn’t know if clinicians would latch onto and say, yeah, this is really important. I didn’t know if people would say, yes, I have pain, you know, please help me. Um, last year about 30,000 people logged onto the first summit and that’s really not with a lot of promotion on, on my, on my part.
Dr. Joe Tatta: It was just, you know, kind of happened organically. Um, the speakers were incredible. Some of them I invited back this year to talk again about different topics. Um, pain is actually a really hard thing to find people to talk about. So I’d have to really, you know, search the internet search. Obviously the clinicians that I know I’m online and on, you know, different social media channels. Um, but you know, the, the response has really been overwhelming. I think people are really starting to realize that pain is not just a symptom, but it’s an actual disease process that we have to, um, look at it in a completely different way than it would be that we’ve been looking at it. And there are a lot of practitioners who are very supportive of, of my mission and my stance. I really appreciate them being here. And then, you know, the other thing that I think is really moving is that after the first time, and I have all these pain stories, so people emailing me about, you know, the pain they’ve had in their life, um, the things they’ve been through, what, you know, what’s failed them, what’s worked for them, the struggles they’ve had.
Dr. Joe Tatta: I mean, the average person in pain probably sees about 10 different practitioners before they can really find the team that they need to help them transition or to transform their health. So, you know, I, I’ve had a successful practice since I was about 26 years old, so I’m used to kind of collecting pain stories. But when you put yourself online, there’s a really a different type of, um, just transformation that starts to happen. So I’ve been, you know, collecting these stories, both the, the ones of success and joy and then the ones of, you know, struggle and I really hold them dear, which is why I’m doing the second summit. Can you share the stories that you’ve received? I can, I mean, you know, they range from obviously auto immune diseases to um, musculoskeletal pain. I mean, I can tell you today, someone emailed me who has bladder pain actually.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Um, and she’s a woman probably in her mid fifties, and she has pain every single time she goes to the bathroom. So every time, every time she urinates and so much so that she really, you know, basically still does not drink a lot of fluids cause she, every time she urinates it hurts. So I said to her, what have you been through? So if she knows, she’s seen a lot of urologists, she seen OB GYN, she’s has seen some orthopedic physicians and I said to her, you know, have you seen a women’s pelvic pelvic floor specialist? And she said, no, no one has referred me to that. So I said, look, you’ve got to get connected with a woman’s health specialists. Now women’s health is not what I do. I obviously treat a lot of women because they’re the primary group that have pain, but I don’t do pelvic floor.
Dr. Joe Tatta: It’s not my specialization. So you know, I start to become a conduit for people as well as you know, someone providing information. Um, I have another guy who emailed me and he said, you know, I’ve had four spinal fusions. They keep going up. My spine started up, started at L five S one if you use that, I still had pain. Then they shoes out four Oh five you know, they’re all only up to L one now. So they’ve infused, they have fused his entire spine at this point. So he has virtually no movement. His lumbar spine and his pain continues. And I said to him, okay, here’s a couple things you need to start to look at. The biomechanical reasons you know, how you move might be a factor. But if this phase of your recovery, that’s not the cause of it. So let’s look at the places like let’s look at your diet, let’s look at the brain and pain. And you know, those are just a couple of stories that I have currently.
Trudy Scott: And that’s really great because I think it’s giving people an awareness that they are many different underlying causes and many different areas that need to be addressed. And this is what the summit is so beautifully doing. It’s bringing together all these experts who can focus on the different areas that you may need to look at and you putting it all together and saying pain is the issue. How do we deal with it? And these are some of the ways that you can deal with it.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, that’s right. And what I really want people to know is that you know, your pain is real. Whether it’s back pain, whether it’s neck pain, whether it’s pelvic pain, whether it’s, you know, bladder pain, whether it’s an autoimmune disease, the pain you feel is very real. I know at times it can be a real challenge to find someone to work with you consistently over the weeks, months and not unfortunately sometimes years for people that have been, you know, kind of taken through a system that’s really not prepared to handle things in a real integrative way. Um, you know, what everyone’s pain experience is very specific to them, their life and what they’ve been through. So yeah, I really enjoy actually hearing about people’s pain experiences cause it gives me a real idea of what they’ve been been through. Um, and what we need to basically improve as we go forward in this epidemic.
Trudy Scott: And this was what, where we in a problem right now because we haven’t really left people with alternatives to deal with their pain. Correct.
Dr. Joe Tatta: It’s true. I mean, you know, I did the summit last year and after the summit what happened for me was a friend of mine said, you know, your topic is really important. Why don’t you write a book on it. And I really had no desire to write a book. Writing a book is actually a lot of work. I knew it was an important topic and I know that I’m the person to deliver the message. So I got an agent and I put together a book proposal and I brought it around to about 10 different big New York city publishing houses. And about five of them just said, you know, pain is a really difficult topic to talk about. Everyone’s pains a little bit different. Um, we don’t pain. And there are about three, three publishers who said, you know, I really liked this topic. We know it’s a challenge, but I like it.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So I got a, I got an offer from three of them. I went with one who I really liked and really clicked with. Um, it’s a Capitol press, which is a great company. They’re an imprints and Perseus books, um, who they, they print most of their, their health books. And I wrote the book, I turned the manuscript in and about four weeks later, the, the NIH, the national institutes of health, as well as the CDC put out a big statement around the opioid epidemic and how opioids are related to our chronic pain and vice versa. And my agent called me and she said, you know, you hit this really right. She goes, a lot of people wanted to avoid the paint topic, but you knew it was out there. And I said, yeah, I’m like, there’s 100 million people plus who struggle with pain in our country. And those numbers are very similar as we spread out around the world to the different countries, whether it’s a third world country, whether it’s, um, you know, an industrialized countries such as Australia and New Zealand and Canada, all the pain numbers are about the same. So, you know, we really need to start talking about now the book is one way, so the book will help, you know, deliver the message a little deeper. Um, but you know, we have a lot of work to do around it.
Trudy Scott: We certainly do. I want to come back to the whole opioid epidemic. But uh, certainly with the, the pain book, anyone who’s got any kind of pain could pick it up and start getting some ideas on where they need to start looking. Correct?
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. My book has three distinct parts to it. So there’s a big section on nutrition and how that’s related to inflammation. And we can talk a little bit about that. There’s a big section on movement and our seven, sorry, lifestyle and physical therapy and exercise and different types of movement therapy. And then there’s a part what I call the brain and pain. So that really discusses the brain’s role, the brain’s implication and what a reader really needs to understand about the brain and how it relates to chronic pain. Cause whenever you have chronic pain, so chronic pain is anyone who’s had pain for three months or more. So if you’ve had pain for three months or more, there’s always a contribution to the brain in your pain. And ultimately the brain is the, is the deciding factor on whether you have pain or not. And as you have and as you persist with pain, so as pain persists, the relationship between your pain and brain is so key to understand that can actually be the one factor that prevents you from getting pain in the future.
Trudy Scott: Wow. That’s interesting. Well I want to come back to the nutrition and I want to come back to the movement and I think we need to dig a little bit deeper into the brain S because I think that brain aspect, cause I think a lot of people aren’t even aware of that aspect. But going back to the whole opioid epidemic, this just can you just give us some highlights on some of the headlines that we’ve been seeing, some of the stats, some of the concerns with this overuse of opioid medications. And maybe just explain to people what opioids are and paste it into what they owe.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yes. Opioids are narcotic medications that you know, they have their place. So let me first say that when we talk about opioids, we’re not talking about pain related to cancer and we’re not talking about pain related to end of life. So we’re talking about pain as relates to musculoskeletal pain, inflammation, things of that nature. Um, opioids are, are, you know, they’ve been around for centuries. The opioid trade has existed for centuries and we know that they’re highly addictive medications. Um, probably sometime in the late eighties, early nineties, the world’s health organization created their ladder, so to speak. It’s called the opioid ladder. And what they did was they, the, who the world health organization realized that cancer pain was not being treated effectively. So we had people who were struggling with cancer and they’re struggling with pain. And obviously those are two big things to, to work through.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So they started recommending this ladder for opioids. So it was first take Tylenol, Tylenol didn’t work, take ensades event’s AIDS, didn’t work, take opioids as needed. And if that didn’t work, take more and more opioids for cancer, that was okay for chronic pain. That’s not okay because chronic pain is a function of the brain. But opioids do, it actually dulls the brain and its essential functions. And in addition to that, it actually becomes very obviously addictive. It becomes open for abuse and it doesn’t help you with the longterm implications that are related to how to get over chronic pain. So, you know, in addition, the pharmaceutical companies kind of latched on to those recommendations and they started pushing opioids, the prescribers out there, which are main, mainly the primary care practitioners and some nurse practitioners. So they started prescribing opioids not only to the cancer patients but as well to the ones with chronic pain. And then we wound up with an epidemic recently, basically.
Trudy Scott: Well this, uh, the Bob can, the summit is very timely because it is such a big issue and they send me people struggling with it and they just don’t know that there’s these other options. And I’m so glad that we providing these options for them. It’s really great that you’re doing this.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. And you know, if I could just say the NIH and the CDC did a wonderful thing when they released a couple of months ago. Um, their new guidelines are on opioids cause they’ve, they’re basically telling providers that you should not prescribe opioids for longterm chronic pain. That’s, that’s, it’s great. It’s wonderful news. The challenge is that what they really didn’t do was provide people with options. So it’s kinda like taking candy away from a baby. You know, you’ve been giving candy to the baby, the baby likes the baby feels better when you take it for a short period of time and you’re making them addicted in some way and then all of a sudden you go and you take it away and the baby is going to say, well I feel good when I take it and you let me take it for a certain period of time. Why am I stopping now? So we do have a responsibility to the over a hundred million people in our country that have chronic, just start to point them in the direction of what works, how it works, and to get them really on the path to recovery and opioids are not that path.
Trudy Scott: Good, good point. Really good point. So talking about some, some, some studying, some images, like say for example you’ve got pain, would you for example, go and ask for an XRA or,
Dr. Joe Tatta: so it’s a wonderful question and imaging has has its place, so you may need an image, but we have to really talk about what imaging really shows us. So I like to talk about our hair so to speak, and I don’t have that much hair so we can talk about that in a second. But here’s a, here’s how it works with your joints. We gray on the outside so your hair turns gray. We gray on the outside. The same way your joints start to slowly deteriorate on the inside. Now if you gray slowly over time, that’s okay. It’s a normal part of aging. We expect that. And it’s not alarming. If all of a sudden you woke up one morning and your hair was completely gray or you woke up one morning, your hair was completely gone. Like, you know, I’m, I’m slowly losing my hair as you know, bit by bit.
Dr. Joe Tatta: That’s okay. It doesn’t bother me. I’m still a healthy, you know, well person. But if my hair fell out, all of a sudden it would, it would alarm me with imaging studies, it’s the same thing for many, many years. We have looked at this study, so we’ve done an extra, I’ve done an MRI of someone’s spine or an X Ray of their knee and we’ve held it up when we set up. You have arthritis, you ever heard eat herniated disc? Do you have to generation that’s related to your pain? And the truth is that’s not always the case. And in many, many, many times, that’s not the case at all. So we know that because we know that pain is a sensory as well as an emotional experience. So you have the sensory, which may be an inflammatory diet, it may be that a little bit of arthritis and maybe your weakness that you have in your knee or your muscles and maybe some of the tightness you have there.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Um, so the x-ray’s only mean one little part. Now, the challenge with the x-ray is once the physician who you like, no one respects, says that arthritis is the cause of your pain, things in your brain start to change. You start to get maladaptive. Neuroplasticity starts to develop, the fear of orients behavior starts to develop fear of what could happen and it actually makes pain worse. So there’s a place for imaging, but we have to really understand that when we talk about the image, we have to talk about it as far as the, the entire person’s pain experience. Does that make sense? Cause they’re kind of difficult concepts to actually start to articulate it.
Trudy Scott: No, it really is. And it’s spitting. Spending back to the whole grain discussion that you talked about earlier. I think it’s really important to bring that in because a lot of people aren’t aware of that
Dr. Joe Tatta: well, so we can talk about that a little bit now. So the, the one thing to realize, and the biggest thing for people who have pain is what’s called fear avoidance. So as you have pain, you start to become very fearful and scared of causing yourself more pain. So you start to avoid normal daily activities. You start to avoid exercise. You may start to avoid certain social situations that you may injure yourself or that you feel may injure you. You may avoid your work because you feel that work may be harming you in some way. So the, the fear that can develop by telling someone you have really bad arthritis, when in fact that arthritis started in your 20s and if it’s just, if it’s just getting, you know, if it’s, if it’s progressing slowly over time a little bit, year by year by year, you’re safe, you’re okay, you can move, you can get stronger. It’s like the rest of us can. But if all of a sudden you wake up one day and you have arthritis, that happens to very, very, very few people and usually it happens from a trauma.
Trudy Scott: Good. Really good points. And I think bringing that awareness is really important. I thank you for sharing that. Another big issue dr Tata, is that a lot of health professionals are not getting the training that they might need for helping people with pain. Kay. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dr. Joe Tatta: I can’t, and obviously true to your nutritionist, so this peril, this conversation about pain Paulos nutrition just a little bit. So if I asked you how many hours is the average physician get as far as nutrition training in school, what would you say?
Trudy Scott: Very little.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, very little. So the average physician would probably gets about nine hours of nutrition training in school. When we talk about pain, the average physician gets about four to six hours of pain training in their residency or in their medical school training. And most of that training happens around medication prescription. What medication should be prescribed, one of the side effects of the medications and how to deal with it. So we’re doing very little training as far as like the, you know, the big broad picture about what pain really is, what the pain experience really is, and how to really take someone on a path of having pain to a path of having no pain, which is, you know, quite frankly the reason why we’re in this epidemic and this crisis because we’re saying, okay, the first place someone’s probably going to hit is their orthopedic surgeon, their physiatrist, their pain management specialists, their primary care physician, um, maybe rheumatologists and most of them and no, you know, no fault by them. It’s obviously a fault of the system. Most of them are going to prescribe a medication first. So we have a lot of education to do in our system. Overall. It started with practitioners about what pain is and how to treat it naturally in a way that helps someone function on a higher level.
Trudy Scott: Wonderful. So let’s talk about one of my favorite topics and that’s nutrition. Talk about how nutrition can play a role in some of these pain issues that people have.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. So it’s a great, it’s a great question. A lot people say, is there a pain relieving diet? What is the perfect diet for pain? And the truth is it’s always, okay, well let’s look at you as a person. Let’s look at what you’re eating. Let’s look at what other parts of your pain experience are there. And then let, let’s start basically now, if most people just ate a whole foods diet free of any kind of MSG, nitrates, nitrate, nitrates and nitrites, um, food additives, preservatives, colorings, you would do a whole lot to decrease inflammation both in your body and actually in your brain. So, you know, obviously we’re moving people toward a whole foods diet. That’s pretty easy. Most people say, okay, I get that I shouldn’t probably have fake foods, so to speak. If that doesn’t work, what I highly recommend for people is to get started on some kind of elimination diet.
Dr. Joe Tatta: You know, they’re, they’re very broad from one or two foods, up to maybe 10 or 20 foods. But for most people, if you just took out gluten, dairy, and sugar, you would dramatically decrease the inflammation in your body. And if you do that over the course of about three weeks, you’re going to see your pain drops significantly. Now, if that doesn’t work, then ultimately I say, okay, let’s look at some other types of elimination diets, but let’s work more toward a ketogenic diet. And a ketogenic is the one people say, well, I don’t know about a lot of fat in my diet. I might get heart disease from it, or there’s not a lot of um, research on it. But the truth is we have a plethora of research around a ketogenic diet and it relates to seizure disorders and seizures and chronic pain are very similar because they both, they both have to deal with an overactive nervous system. So with an overactive nervous system, with seizures, obviously you can have a seizure with an overactive nervous system. For people with chronic pain, you’re going to have more chronic pain and chronic pain type syndromes. So a ketogenic diet is really good at decreasing the sensitivity of the nervous system, and that’s typically through increasing adenosine or what’s known as ATP in your brain, in the mitochondria.
Trudy Scott: So give us an example of what a ketogenic diet might look like.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So a ketogenic diet is typically moderate protein, probably around 20 to 30% protein, definitely no more than 30%. Um, very low starchy or Cabo carbohydrate diets. So you’re taking out most, you take in all of your grains, most of your beans, most of your starchy vegetables. You’re left with kind of your very high fiber, special mulch should most relief agreements and broccoli, um, some of the cabbages, some of the cauliflower, things of that nature. And then you’re putting in a lot of healthy fat. So obviously you’re a mega threes, which are found in fish and meats, uh, and as well as coconut oil, coconut products. You can do a ketogenic diet with dairy, although I don’t recommend that because dairy tends to be very inflammatory, has a lot of hormones and it has a lot of antibiotics in it. And I really prefer people take a ketogenic diet or, or adopt the ketogenetic like does not have dairy in it.
Trudy Scott: Right. And it’s so interesting. I was not aware of the connection to pain and the ketogenic diet. Very familiar with how powerful it is for seizures. The Ted nodded about the pain connection, so that’s interesting. Wow. And it’s, it’s so interesting how as you say, you can have issues with certain foods that can cause seizures and then you can have issues with foods that can cause pain. And if you eliminate those foods, you can get resolution of both, both issues in that, depending on what the underlying causes for each individual person. And I think it’s something that’s so important and you just clarify that this importance of how they can be so many different underlying causes. And someone who’s got a pain could have one underlying cause. It could be a food that they’re eating or it could be multiple underlying causes.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. And that goes back to the definition of pain, which is pain being a sensory and emotional experience. So the sensor is, maybe it’s a food allergy or food intolerance. Okay. Then gluten’s obviously coming out, you know, gluten, gluten intolerance or sensitivity and people with pain probably exist in about 90% of people are paying. It’s 40% of the general population. But if you’re talking about people with pain, it’s about 90% and obviously dairy is not too far behind in the high sugar diet is not too far behind. So those are, those are food intolerances, food sensitivities, that’s the sensory component. The sensory Cambodia could be you have a sedentary lifestyle where your joints are tight or being sedentary is creating a lot of fat around your midsection. That fat becomes very inflammatory and creates cytokines that circulate around your whole body and eventually deposit in your joint tissue or your muscle tissue, which is about 80% of all the tissue in your body.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Um, the sensory component could be, you know, not exercising at all and just not getting good blood flow and good circulation and good oxygenation to your body. Then there’s the emotional component, which quite frankly I think is, is the one thing that people don’t talk about enough and we need to talk about more. So that’s what is your current stress level. Are you under a lot of stress? Have you recently had a big stressful event in your life? Does your pain relate to an accident that caused you to have a lot of stress in your life? Is your pain related to a past trauma such as, you know, awful things like being raped or being molested or being um, a victim of sexual abuse or a crime? Does it relate to PTSD? Have you been in a war or that PTSD relate to some kind of trauma you have in your life? Are your thoughts alone? You know, the thought, you think on a daily basis. Those are inflammatory. So those are the emotional component to it. So it’s never just one. So if you have chronic pain, you have to start to think of all those different layers and how it relates to your pain experience and how can we slowly chip away at those that you have decreased pain in a consistent manner.
Trudy Scott: This is interesting because I’m pretty sure most clinicians and most people who are suffering from pain and not even thinking at this kind of navel. And it’s interesting that you talk about such a high level of people with pain, having issues with gluten. I work with people with anxiety and Eddy to 90% of my clients go on a gluten free diet and the anxiety diminishes or or you know, goes away completely. So we, you know, different things are gonna trigger and different issues and different people and obviously you see a big overlap between pain and anxiety as well. So addressing one area is obviously gonna help others as well.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. You know, it’s so fascinating because people still to this day say to me, well I thought gloom was just a fad diet and I’m like, goon is anything but if fad died, it relates to so many different diseases and symptoms. And I think it’s so interesting, you know, when you talk about that loop between gluten pain and anxiety, you know, it goes in both directions. So gluten can cause pain and then you’re paying could cause more anxiety or gluten can cause anxiety and your anxiety levels can cause more pain basically. So the, the link between anxiety is, is and pain is so key. Um, that it’s really important that you know, both you and I get that message out there cause it helps people on both levels.
Trudy Scott: Yes, absolutely. So you talked a little bit about movement and exercise. Tell us a little bit about, uh, what someone who’s in pain, what, what should they do? Should they be exercising? Should they be avoiding exercise? Should they be doing special kind of exercise?
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, so obviously as as a physical therapist, I’m going to talk about movement and I’m going to talk about exercise. Um, you know, I think the first thing is to kind of dispel the myth that if you, if you do something like exercise or some kind of movement that you should completely avoid it. And I, you know, a lot of, unfortunately a lot of physicians tell their patients that is avoid anything that causes you pain. Now, if people did that, especially people that been cropped with chronic pain, they would avoid everything. They would avoid shopping, they would avoid groceries, they would avoid any kind of exercise, they would enjoy dancing, some things that may actually bring them pleasure. So the trick is to realize that because pain is an output of the brain and it’s not an indicator of tissue damage, that you can do a little bit of movement and be safe.
Dr. Joe Tatta: You can add a little bit of exercise in your life. You may be a little sore the day after, but you’re still safe cause it’s your brain saying, Oh, maybe I did a little bit too much. And if you did, that’s okay just to back off it a little bit. So when people come to physical therapy, a lot of times the exercise I give them are so gentle. They’re so easy. I may only give you two or three exercises that you need to do every day, but they’re like, you know, almost, you know, baby exercise, so to speak. And people say, could this really be doing anything? And I tell them, look, exercise is about, yes, it’s about strength. Yes, it’s about flexibility, but ultimately exercise helps you damp in or helps you quiet your nervous system as you come in week by week I’m going to give you a little bit more and it’s going to be a little challenging and yes you’re going to get stronger. But ultimately what I’m doing is I’m sending a signal to your brain that it’s okay to move and then as you get stronger, you build confidence. As you build strength and you send that signal to your brain that it’s going to quiet itself, your is going to decrease and that’s okay to move. It’s okay to do some activity.
Trudy Scott: So give us an example of some dental exercises someone might start to do if they worked with you and they’ve got pain issues.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, I mean, you know, something gentle. Like I’ve had patients where I just started them doing what’s called cat camel, which is just kind of like rounding your back and arching it and just start doing that once every couple of hours for about a week in a row. Just that one exercise. So you’re sending a message to your brain that, okay, I can flex my spine a little bit this way and I can flex my spine a little bit this way. So I’m saying it’s safe to do flection and it’s safe to do extension. How many times you ever heard people with back pain say up, you should not bend, you should not bend over and pick anything up or you should not arch backwards. It’s going to really hurt you. So what you do is you’re sending a signal to your brain that says, don’t move. It’s really dangerous if you move, don’t bend forward. That’s not what you want to do. What you want to do is the actual opposite. Do you want to slowly start to reintegrate with movement but in a slow, progressive, modified, gentle way. So ultimately what I’m saying is ultimately exercise retrains your brain, not just your body.
Trudy Scott: And it goes back to this whole brain discussion that you had earlier. It’s so interesting how you’re bringing in that aspect. It’s something that I hadn’t thought about and I’m sure others haven’t been thinking about either. So,
Dr. Joe Tatta: yeah. So let me touch on that for a minute for people. So pain is an output of your brain, so it’s not an output of, of your arm or your leg or your knee. Ultimately your brain makes the decision whether to output brain or not. So as pain is sending you signals and alarm pain is just an alarm, but your brain also has other ways to send an alarm signal. Swelling is one way. It can make a joint or limb swell or a limb swell. Um, numbness and tingling is another way it can make a joint or a pickup part of your body tingle. Um, lack of coordination is another way. That’s why when you’re injured you feel like you can’t move or you stumble or you limb. Um, lack of strength is another way. So there are many different outfits of the brain and it supports you realize that pain is just one of them. Pain is the one that most of us realize, but all those other outfits are signals as well that you have to kind of work on to get yourself out of that pain experience.
Trudy Scott: So perfect. What, so let’s end with this. What would you say is the best way for someone to decrease or eliminate their pain for good, and is it possible because a lot of people would probably think, no, it’s not possible. I’ve lived with it for so long. I’ve tried so many things, I’ve definitely not going to find a solution.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, and that that’s a great, a great point. And one of the great points to end on is that first of all, pain is not to be chronic. You can, you can overcome chronic pain. You can stop your pain, you can end your pain, you can heal your pain. Now the thing you have to do is realize that pain is an experience. So it takes looking at you as a whole person, not only your joints and not only the what’s in your joints, but also your experience, your diet, your movement, what’s going on as far as your emotions, your thoughts. Once you start to look at all those different areas and you start to kind of affect them or, or, or start to kind of turn them around, your pain experience is going to start to decrease. But any person who tells you that this one thing is going to cure your pain, chances are won’t. There are things that there, there may be one thing that alleviates it a little bit, but my, my interest and my mission is to cure your pain completely. So the way you do that really start to learn about what pain is. You’re going about, the pain experience. You learn about how your brain changes your mind about what’s needed to reverse knowing the pain in your body, but also the pain in your brain. And once you do that, you’ll heal your pain completely.
Trudy Scott: What a wonderful uplifting message to end on. And I think that’s going to give a lot of people hope. And the summit is going to give a lot of people some tools that they can start learning about and approaches that they can consider to alleviate and completely, uh, in the pain, which is what we want.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. And that’s why this summit includes, you know, an integrative suite of practitioners that you may say, you know, I, I know I need to fix my diet, but I also need to exercise or I need to exercise. I may also need to maybe do some tapping to get over some trauma I’ve had in my life, or I need to completely get rid of blue. And I’ve done it once before. I felt better, but now’s the time to completely get rid of gluten so I can feel better and I can start to exercise. So you’re going to find that integrated suite here on the summit. Um, you’ll find it in my book when the book comes out in February. I love all of you to, you know, support it. You’ll find it in some products and programs that I have coming for you in the next couple of weeks. Um, there, there, there’s help there for you and I know that it can be really tough to negotiate how to, um, survive your pain and heal your pain. But I’m here for you, which is why I did the summit and thanks for being here.
Trudy Scott: Well, great. Thanks very much for taking a great interview and I’m looking forward to hearing all the great experts on the summit and thanks very much for having me interview you. It’s a real pleasure. I always learn something from your doctor Tatta.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Thanks Judy. Thanks so much for of course all you’ve done with your summits and your book and helping me out today. And um, Trudy and I had been talking about doing something around the anxiety pain connection, which we’ll probably do in a couple of months, so it’d be on the lookout for that as well.
Trudy Scott: Right. Thanks everyone. Thanks Dr. Tatta.