Dr. Joe Tatta: Welcome back to the healing pain summit. I am your host, Dr. Joe Tatta. It’s great to be here with you. Once again on the summit, I have Dr. Mitchell Yaas. Today on our interview is the doctor physical therapy has written two books. The first book is called overpowering pain and his second book is called the pain prescription. You may have seen him on PBS, so if you turned the television on and you see a familiar face, it is Dr. Mitchell. Yeah, so he’s on the summit today. As a reminder, before we start the interview, make sure to like my Facebook page and as well make sure to go in and join the healing pain support group. I specifically develop this group for you so you can get in there. You can share your stories, you can share how you have found pain relief, you can share your struggles. If you have questions, you can ask them in there, so make sure to check it out. But without further ado, let’s welcome Dr. Mitchell Yaas to the healing pain summit. Dr. Mitchell Yaas. Welcome to the Healing Pain Summit 2.0 it’s great to have you here today.
Dr. Yaas: Thanks for having me, Joe. It’s a great opportunity to spread the word and help some people resolve their pain. So I’m happy to be here.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Great. Great. So glad to have you on board for the, for the mission. So I know that you wrote a book called the pain cure prescription. I know you, it’s, it’s some, you know, really well you’ve done a PBS tour around the country and that’s done, you know, well at all. I think we should, I think we should maybe start today by having you explained kind of the core principle of your method and how it relates to pain basically.
Dr. Yaas: Sure. So the premise of my method really relates to what I believe is the core understanding of why people experience pain. And that is that in most cases, pain is an indication of a tissue in distress. That’s why the body elicits pain. Uh, when someone has pain in the chest and the left arm, that’s indicative of the heart having dysfunction. Uh, this runs in the same premise. So the idea of proper diagnostic should be to identify what tissue is, eliciting the symptom and then uh, treat the tissue. The symptom is the pain. We don’t really want to address that because that’s mostly designed to mess this up. We really want to look at the, the cause of the symptom and address that. So the purpose of the methodology is to establish what tissue that is. In the majority of cases it turns out to be muscles. So then we provide targeted strengthening, not general conditioning, but targeted strengthening to address the muscles that are inhibiting function and leading to the symptom, which then resolves the symptom and returns the person to full functional capacity.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So you’re talking about evaluating muscle? Um, I, you know, I think of when often when people have pain they go to a practitioner. Oftentimes it’s a physician first. Well the more and more people are choosing to go to physical therapy first cause it’s probably the most conservative, you know, type of care out there. But a lot of people are first confronted with either an extra, an MRI as far as kind of diagnosing their pain. Is that the Avenue we really should be going down with pain or should we be kind of steering away from the diagnostic and imaging tests for pain?
Dr. Yaas: Yeah. So this whole idea of diagnostic testing, I understand why it developed. So in the 70s we had the x-ray and there was no other mechanism of establishing a cause. And so then we create the MRI. We developed the MRI, natural soft tissue, and the intent was to say that, well, I have pain in an area, I have some structural variation found on the MRI. Therefore that can be concluded that the structural variations creating the symptom. The problem with that is that the evidence is so overwhelming that these structural variations such as herniated discs, that gnosis, um, arthritis, meniscal tears are independent variables. They have nothing to do with the symptom. In fact, if you had taken an MRI or x-ray prior to you having your symptom, you would’ve gotten the same exact result. You would’ve have seen these things. There are just structural variations. The evidence is such that in one study that showed that over the age of 16 90% of people who do not have back pain have bulging or degenerative discs, 90% so basically almost everybody over the age of 60 conversely, a study showed that of those people who have back pain, 85% of those people could not have their pain attributed to a spinal abnormality, like a herniated disc is the neurosis.
Dr. Yaas: So we have a 90% false positive. We get the structural variation and people that don’t have the symptom and then an 85% false negative, you have pain, but you can associate it to a structural variation. Clearly the evidence is indicating that these structural variations simply exist and the further evidence is that when they’re treated, no one gets better. Apple. I would highly recommend that the use of MRIs not be the primary mechanism that in evaluating the symptoms we can then go on. Now, if I thought that it was structural based on the presentation of the symptoms, certainly the use of the diagnostic test to confirm that would be a value.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So you mentioned you know, spinal pain basis, so back pain, neck pain, which I think obviously you know people have MRIs very, very frequently for those parts of their body. What about things like shoulder and knees? Is is a, is the same concept apply to those joints as well?
Dr. Yaas: Absolutely. So if we want to talk about one of the biggest hottest surgeries out right now, it’s joint replacement hip and knee replacement. And so when we’re talking about that, the typical mechanism is that someone gets the next ride and it will show a decreased joint space. Let’s say for instance, we’re talking about the knee and the assumption is, Oh, that decreased joint space means you’re on bone and therefore you need surgery. You’re having pain, let’s say around your knee cap. Now the important points to make to, to bring it up about this, let’s look at the physical presentation. The person’s having pain around the kneecap and yet they’re being told that their bone on bone, the space between the thigh bone and the lower leg bone, well, if that were in fact to created a symptom, it would have to create a symptom at the joint line.
Dr. Yaas: The sides of the joint, the variation of structure in that area could never create pain around the kneecap. It’s simply an independent Dory joint, the two separate joints. So the presentation of this symptom would clearly indicate that the diagnostic foreign finding couldn’t possibly be creating. It. Secondarily could look at the fact that if you aren’t bone on bone, then that would indicate that there’s no joint space as implied by being bone on bone. And if there was no joint space, that would indicate that there is no ability of both the glide, which is necessary for the joint to go through range of motion. So if someone is in fact bone on bone, we have to see a major loss of range of motion and at that end range where it can’t go any farther, we would expect to feel like you couldn’t, even if you tried to force it, you couldn’t force it any farther because it would feel like a bone is hitting another bone.
Dr. Yaas: In the 99% of the cases I’ve treated that someone was called, there were bone on bone at the knee. There was full range of motion, clearly indicating that the joint could not be bone on bone. So this is why the idea of using these diagnostic tests really pretty much anywhere is not a great value in the initial state of diagnosing because it just one structural variations which simply have nothing to do with symptoms. And the funny point is, let’s say that the core is multiple. Let’s say you strained your hamstring and that’s wasn’t pain that led, it was the pain of the muscle that led to the diagnostic test being taken to where you saw the structural variation. If you’ve never had the muscular pain, you would’ve never taken the diagnostic test. You wouldn’t even know that you were living with this decreased joint space. So that’s one of the biggest reasons why actually the American college of physicians recommended these not be done because of the fact that it’s finding these structural variations and it’s leading to fear and apprehension that something must be done simply because they were found.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah, and I think the fear and apprehension is a really good, a good point because people, once you have that image of doctors saying you have, you know, when did you want to just disease or you have really bad arthritis, like it’s you know, an extra thing that you know, you, what you and I are basically saying is that as you age they’re going to be some structural changes that happen. But if they happen at a relatively normal pace throughout the course of your life and a lot of these, these changes really happened in your early twenties so if they’re happening at a normal pace throughout your life, it’s okay. It’s going to happen to all of us. You know, obviously if you, if you have a traumatic accident, all of a sudden you have arthritis that comes on all at once, which is extremely, extremely, extremely rare. Maybe in 0.5% of the cases that happens, but for most people really saying that the imaging studies are do not correlate with your pain at times it can be dangerous cause they’re causing stress in your brain, which at times is, you know, is the output of of of your your problem as well as you could be putting yourself at risk for x-rays that potentially cause cancer. Actually.
Dr. Yaas: Absolutely. The other important point to make is that if in fact let’s say that the cause of your pain around your knee is some sort of muscular deficit and imbalance or a strain of a muscle, you then end up getting the surgery for a structural variation that had nothing to do with your problem. You’re going to have postsurgical symptoms, you’re going to have pain and swelling, which is going to inhibit your ability to weight there on that joint, which is going to make it harder and harder for you to create force. So if the muscle was already strained and weakened and you wake there less on that joint, you’re feeding into greater and greater weaknesses which are leading to greater and greater pain and dysfunction. You’re literally moving yourself farther and farther away from your ability to resolve your symptoms and resolve your dysfunction. That’s why that surgery has to be seen as not only just destructive at that point of if it’s unnecessary, it’s what’s happening in the future and how it’s going to inhibit you from going or getting any closer to resolving your symptoms and returning to function.
Dr. Yaas: And I think that most people who have experienced surgeries at the back are these joint replacements. Everybody knows somebody who’s had one of these surgeries who have actually gone farther down the road in increased symptom and dysfunction. So it’s not necessarily just the theoretical basis of this. The imperative data is overwhelming. The number of redos of joint replacements, the failure rate of surgery. Then the ones who created the premise of failed back surgery syndrome, they pointed, not me, not you. I mean, that’s an acknowledgement. I’m doing your surgery and you’re still having the same symptom. I mean really something’s wrong.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Yeah. I think the other point too, you know, cause on this summit we have clinicians as well as as patients, people seeking help. I think the other important point to really drive home to people is that if you are a practitioner, you know most of the time it’s a physician, um, is only relying on an extra, you’re only relying on MRI and then making the decision to put you onto the knife, so to speak, to, to do surgery that not only do those surge surgeries often not work, but you’re also exposing yourself to things like infections that really run ramping in hospitals. Absolutely zing yourself to human error because the surgeon and their team at times may make an error. You’re exposing yourself to anesthesia, which a lot of times people have very, very bad side effects from anesthesia and the postop and of course at times can be a hundred times worse than any pain you had before the surgery.
Dr. Yaas: Sure, sure. And I think if we could kind of go back to the general premise that the party seems to have an ability to heal itself. It really wants to work correctly, and the essence of treatment should be not to replace the body’s ability to do what it wants to do, but kind of glided back and then let it do what it needs to do. That is the general premise of what I believe I’m doing for people. I’m just finding out why it’s not working the way it should. And then I’m trying to guide it back and then in most cases, help the person understand what they have to do to resolve it. I don’t ever see myself as a healer. I’m just kind of a guiding principle guy. I’m a guy who’s directing youth to understand what do I have to do? And then it’s up to you to take responsibility and see you brush your teeth in the morning, you try to eat right and try to sleep right. Well, the exercise component is a key component to allowing you to sustain function. Function is basically moving and moving his muscles. So if you want to sustain and limit infirmity and remain independent, you’re going to have to participate in that aspect. So that’s really the guiding principle that I use for myself.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Excellent. So, so if we’re promoting, you know, both of you and I are on the same page in the sense that, you know, diagnostic imaging said not be the first step for people with chronic pain, um, well reported in the literature as well as clinically. Most of us see that that doesn’t, it doesn’t help. It doesn’t do anything, right? Where should we start then? How do we, how do we start to diagnose this?
Dr. Yaas: So the general premise that I try to use is this understanding that the body wants you to understand when you’re having dysfunction. If you’re having the flu, if you have an allergy response, that’s not arbitrary. This is the body’s protective mechanism. I wrote an all a post recently that says pain is not your fault. It’s your friend. You want to see pain as not something. Oh God, I got to put up with this. How terrible it is. The pain is the body’s trying a signal to try to say, this is the tissue that’s in distress and you need to do something for it. So it’s an interpretation of the symptom, which is the primary mechanism that I use and I want people to understand that pain is not just innocuous, it just doesn’t exist. There are typically other aspects of the body’s presentation which will help you understand better what the tissue is that’s eliciting the symptoms.
Dr. Yaas: So if it’s a structure of a joint, then you would expect to see a major loss of range of motion. If it’s a muscular element, then I’d expect to see some sort of altered posture, some sort of, what was the Walker, the movement pattern. Someone describing the sense he has a great one that people are, so let’s say that you’re having pain in your neck and you were told you’re having a herniated disc and you say to the practitioner, you don’t have to stretch this thing. I take a hot shower and I feel better. My pain goes away. If you’re saying that the cause is a herniated disc or stenosis and that heat makes it better, what you’re implying to me is that’s the gnosis or heat or stenosis or herniated disc could be melted away with he and clearly that’s not the case. So simply by understanding that heat makes your symptom better indicates that the tissue is most likely muscle and in fact that the key is causing the muscle to become more distensible. Stretching, do concentrating the pain receptors. So you have to really look at all the types of things that create the symptom, make it worse, all the things that make it better. And also look at what the body’s presenting postural deficits, deficits, flexibility, deficits, range of motion. It’s really a very, very in depth physical evaluation. That should be the primary mechanism for identifying what to choose. Eliciting that pain.
Dr. Joe Tatta: What’d you think is great, cause I think you know, when you look at the systems of robotic, the cardiovascular system, there are physicians obviously that specialize in metrical cardiac cardiologist. When you look at the endocrine system, there are endocrinologists who look at obviously the way hormones function. You know, I really think that, uh, physical therapists are the ones who look at the musculoskeletal system. You may argue that an orthopedic surgeon does that awesome. And he’s really looking at it in terms of wanting to do serve. You were really looking at it as far as a whole and trying to optimize this entire system that obviously runs from head to toe to make you function better throughout life.
Dr. Yaas: Well, let’s be extremely clear about this of a, a orthopedic surgeon, no structure. That’s what he’s trained to do. He knows nothing about how muscles are attached. He doesn’t understand the bio mechanics of it. A neurologist knows nerves. You’re never going to have a neurologist tell you your problem is orthopedics. You’re never going to have an orthopedist telling you your problem is neurological. You never gonna have a podiatrist tell you that it’s outside the foot. Everybody is splintered. A rheumatologist is going to tell you your problems. Arthritis, that’s all they know. So there’s no question that the splinted system is in the cause of the problem. If you can identify all the potential things that might elicit your symptom and you’re only able to identify a singular one, how do you know you’re getting the right one? That’s where the problem lies. That’s why people, even within a specialty, people tell me, Oh, I go to Bible orthopedics and I get five different answers.
Dr. Yaas: This is insanity. Pain should be considered a unique issue. Just like cardiology does, like dermatology and my goal in life and in my future, my belief in the future is that we’re going to try to unify a system. It can be that you can go to a podiatrist, design trust, physical therapists, our prac, the rheumatologist, pain management doctor and think that you are going to get a unified answer. It’s just not going to happen. Um, I think that the background of physical therapy certainly makes them more open to being able to identify when the cause is structural or bone. And when it’s muscular, it’s simply, it has to be that way. You have to be able to know all potential causes to identify the right potential cause.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Right. Sorry, I was flipping through your book. I know in your book you talk about kind of targeted strengthening versus like a general strengthening program. Can you explain to people what that means and what’s the difference and why they, why is it really important to make that distinction?
Dr. Yaas: Sure. So the, the one of the primary premises of my methodology is that there is a connection between your symptom and this function. They seem to always go together, but the majority of people are describing the fact that the symptom they’re experiencing seems to be associated with an inability to perform an activity. Activities are the result of all the muscles being required to do that activity, having enough strength to do so. And if in fact that’s the case, then there is no symptom. So if the force output of the muscles is greater than the force requirement of the activity, you’re great. You have no symptoms. But if you are having a symptom, it is a clear indication of some form of weakness or imbalance. Something quite specific is preventing that particular functional activity from being performed. So we need to identify which muscles in the grouping that are required to do that.
Dr. Yaas: Have strained or in imbalanced. Once you identify that only those muscles need to be addressed because the other muscles most likely are fine. It’s only the ones that are limiting that particular functional activity. Um, and so what we want to do is just strengthen those. That’s what’s meant by targeted. Um, there’s a premise that oftentimes people, let’s say that your quad, your front thigh muscle is too strong in relationship to your backline muscle. It shortens, it pulls excessively on unique cap. Then you have knee pain. If you were to do a general conditioning premise where I’m going to do my quad and my hamstring, you’re sustaining the imbalance. You’re literally feeding into everything that’s creating your symptom. So if you want this to end, target is strength training. What you would be doing is stretching the front thigh muscle to elongate your from dye to take less pressure off the kneecap and strengthen the hamstring.
Dr. Yaas: That’s what has to be done. It has to be very specific. If you have weakness on one side because the gluteus medius muscle, the muscle that supports you just that’s it’s just above the hip on one side is weak and it’s making you sign bender or unstable and you would have strengthen both hip muscles. You’re sustaining the imbalance in the body will always choose to use the stronger leg so it will consistently force you to not wait there on that weaker leg, which will consistently allow it to sustain weakness and feed in here. Then stability, so that’s what’s meant by targeted strength training. You have to work on the specific muscles and only those muscles that are leading to the dysfunction and creating the symptoms.
Dr. Joe Tatta: I think when you use the word strength training, I’m sure for a lot of people who are in pain, you’re watching the summit. The first thing they think is I don’t want to move it it whenever I move, I don’t want to do anything and strength training to me sounds like something, I don’t know. Squash it n***a should be strength training, not me, but you know how, why and how it should strength training be appropriate for everyone who has pain?
Dr. Yaas: That’s great. Great question. Probably the biggest issue that I come in contact with, you’re having pain when you’re having, when you’re trying to perform functional activities, and I’m telling you you need to strength train, which sounds counter intuitive in that if I’m having pain doing functional activities, I’m surely going to have pain doing strengthening. So the important thing to understand is that when you’re doing these activities, they’re incorporating mass muscle groups. Lots of muscles are working to do the activity. So if there’s a weaker muscle, it’s still going to try to be incorporated. And that’s what leads it to strain and elicit symptoms. When we’re doing targeted strength training, what we’re doing is we’re doing isolated movements. If we were to say strengthen your hamstring, we would have your body fully stable in a seated position, in a very stable chair and all we’d be doing is bending the knee because that’s what the hamstring does.
Dr. Yaas: So the idea of strength training is that we’re just going to isolate a muscle and the exercises are designed just to work with joint that that muscle and goes. Therefore the output of the muscle can only be what that muscle is capable of and in such a way that it’s never going to be forced to overwork, so it will never strain and elicit pain. It’s very independent, each muscle it just being work. The other point is that the goal of my method of exercise is that we’re looking for the entire body to be fully stable other than the joint that’s moving. So the majority of the exercises I do with people are in a seated position. There is no balance and stability required because you’re stable as a result of that, all the energy that you are emitting will go towards the strengthening of the muscle.
Dr. Yaas: So that’s another key point. Then. Then when we talked about this idea of how much resistance we need, we have to go to a gym. That’s simply not true. I treated people from six to 102 and I use whatever type of resistance is available. Oftentimes we’re now using resistance bands or resistance tube systems. These are things that could be used in a home. You do not have to go to a gym. There are varying levels of resistance. You want to find the resistance where you feel you’re comfortable, but that you’re working. And so we’re trying to set the resistance level, the individual to something they’re comfortable with. And so you’re comfortable but you still feel like you’re working. So there really is nothing about the idea of striping that should scare somebody and you’re in a very stable position. You’re isolating muscles that would never be paying because you’re only working at the level that the muscle is capable of. So we’ll never strain. And the resistance we use is to the level that the individual is capable of. So there should be no fear. And the important thing to understand that if there this function without being, without performing the strengthening and isolating the particular muscles, you’ll never get back to that point where you can do the activities preventing any muscle from straining and allowing you to be fully functional. So it is really big kid.
Dr. Joe Tatta: So my question for you would be, you know, a lot of patients that have been to physicians and they say, well to get moving just you know, start walking or you know, just do the bike, go on the bike and ride the bike for a couple of minutes. Why is that not good advice?
Dr. Yaas: This is such a critical point. People do not understand. People think of exercise as being generic. All exercise is good and that’s because the idea is you’re moving and moving is good and I’m not going to deny moving is good. Yes, it’s better than not doing anything. But the difference in doing bicycles with treadmills or palati or yoga or any of these are, remember they’re still functional activities. They are still activities where groups of muscles are being worked together and if there is a weakened muscle or an imbalanced muscle, you do nothing to isolate that weakened or imbalanced muscle. So it’s simply feeding into sustaining the problems that are preventing you from doing the other activities you’re doing. If you’re having problems gardening, nailing, if you’re having a problem reaching a woman, putting a Brower on any of these type things, doing bicycling, doing, walking, doing, swimming, doing Peloton.
Dr. Yaas: None of these things will do anything to first identify the muscles that are limiting the proper function and still eliciting the symptom and then finding a mechanism to strengthen those particular isolated muscles. Targeted strength training is the only way of identifying and isolating the muscles that need to be worked so that you can go on and then have full function without symptom. It is very important. There is a major difference. Think of a general category of these functional types of exercises, bicycling, Palladio’s, yoga, treadmill, swimming, and then completely on the other side. Think of targeted strain training, isolating individual muscles, using resistance for small repetition balance so that you can find and utilize the specific muscles that are leading to a dysfunction, resolve the symptoms and return you to full function.
Dr. Joe Tatta: And it just to, just to make a point, cause I, you know, our statistics tell us that 75% of all Americans have no exercise program at all. So most people have sedentary the sitting in their chair all day long at work. They’re watching television when they get home from work, you know, most super city upwards of probably 12 to 14 hours, they still are getting no activity. So you’re saying that you should not go out and do general exercise?
Dr. Yaas: Absolutely. No, no, absolutely not. That’s the point. If it’s very important to understand, I am not saying don’t do these things. I’m saying do as much as you want. Be as active as you can be. There’s no question movement is your best chance of not ending up being confirmed. But unless you are incorporating the isolated strength training, which allows you, if we could get you to the point where you, you know, catch you before you even have a symptom and do a general conditioning exercise routine where you’re strengthening all the independent muscles that’s going to allow you to do these other types of activities at a higher level with the lesser chance of injury. So what I’m saying is if we’re looking at what should be the primary form of exercise for everybody, not just if you are having a symptom but just as a form of general conditioning is isolated strength training, then go on and expand and do all these type things whenever you have a passion for it. You will know once you do your general conditioning exercise that you’ll be able to do this at the highest level that’s capable with the least chance of injury. That, that, that’s the general premise.
Dr. Joe Tatta: so let, let’s, let’s take a little shift here. So, so where should pain, um, diagnosis go in the future? Where do you see it going? Cause if we’re saying that you know, you shouldn’t have an MRI, you shouldn’t have an extra day, that we really should start looking at the muscle scout system. As far as a physical evaluation, which the truth is in, in our current medical system, it can take quite a long time. You’re really thorough physical evaluation. However, that’s what’s needed. That is really what is needed for most people who have pain, but where do you see us moving in the future as far as you know, pain diagnosis goes?
Dr. Yaas: I definitely think that the physical evaluation is the should be the primary mechanism and I think as I’ve said, I believe that we need to have a unified system. I think that pain has to be perceived as a independent specialty at some point. It just has to be and that we can’t have splintered systems. We can have, you go into 15 different practitioners who have 15 different understandings and it’s soon that you are somehow going to get a unified diagnosis. It just is not going to happen. We need to create a unified methodology and allow the physical presentation, a physical presentation of symptoms to be the primary way of identifying what the issue is, creating that. And then if found to be structural, then take diagnostic tests and if they are structural, if there is a nerve that’s creating a symptom or a bone, by all means then being referred to the neurologist or the orthopedic surgeon.
Dr. Yaas: But the idea of going to a surgeon to determine whether you need surgery just sounds like this a little problem in terms of a bias nature towards the surgery. Uh, I just, you know, I, I just want people right now, the majority of people get surgeries. If you ask the average person, why do you get surgery? Is it because you were clearly explained how, I know for sure that this is the answer and they’ll tell, you know, I was either told that I’ll be crippled at some point or when it’s neurological, if I don’t get the surgery, I could be paralyzed. Fear and intimidation was never the way the medical concept was designed. We should be above those type things. We should be able to provide the information in such a way that the person says, wow, that makes sense. That’s why I want to follow that process.
Dr. Yaas: And in fact, I spend enormous amounts of time before I dive in, even ever touch somebody on the presentation of what I’m seeing as to why I believe this is what’s great new symptom. And I never really comfortable until the person says yes, you know what, if everything you’ve said that makes sense. And that could even mean that I’m telling you, you are bone on bone in three, 4% of the population. Someone is bone on bone and they need surgery. And I’m all for it. My job isn’t to resolve. Everybody’s paying. My primary job is to diagnose it in a way that they could receive the treatment they need. So that’s where I see my primary responsibility is to get the people the treatment they need. It just so happens in 95% of greater, it seems that the causes muscular and therefore targeted train training is a way of resolving the symptom and returning them to function.
Dr. Yaas: But, um, I really, my hope and my dream is that we have a unified system. Um, we create pain as its own specialty. And, and that way people can get the quick and effective diagnostic mechanism that they need and the treatment they need and they can get back their lives. That’s what people are yearning for. That’s what people contact me about from around the country. They want solutions. They’re tired of being in situation where they read the stuck living in the life that they are, or being stuck addicted to pain medication. No one’s happy about this. No one’s happy about the existing situation of the medical establishment. They want to change. And we need change makers. And I’d love to be a part of that. So.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Well, thank you for being on the summit. You definitely a part of it now because, uh, we’ll probably reach a couple of tens of thousands of people. So it’s, it’s great to have you on. Can you tell me and how people can find out more information about you?
Dr. Yaas: Sure. Um, the easiest way is just to go onto my website. It’s freight-forwarder, www.mitchellyaz.comandmytchellyass.com. Um, you can contact me through that. Um, I described, I have an internet radio show. I’m trying to reach out. Um, we talk about the books that are available. Uh, we, we have an office here in st Augustine, Florida. Um, I’m trying to do Skype evaluations, but people that can’t reach me. Um, I’m really open to giving every opportunity for people to find out about this method of diagnosing, which hopefully leads to identifying the tissue that’s eliciting your symptom and giving you a quick way of ending your symptoms and getting you back to your function. So, uh, any way you can reach me, I’m happy to oblige and help you.
Dr. Joe Tatta: Great. So I want to thank Dr. Mitchell Yaas for being on the healing pain summit this year. It’s great to have him. He’s obviously a very passionate doctor, physical therapy and it’s good to have him on. I’m checking him out on his website and check out his book, the pain prescription. If you’d like this video, you found him to be informative, please hit the like button. You can share that on Facebook or on Twitter so other people can experience not only his video, but also the entire summit. And we will see you on the next interview.