Welcome back to the Healing Pain Podcast with Summer Bock
A new era in science has dawned with the realization of the critical role of the forgotten organ, which is the gut microbiome. Central to this beneficial interaction between the gut microbiome and the rest of our human body is the matter in which bacteria contained within our gut communicates with the rest of our immune system. Not only does it communicate with our immune system but we know there are connections that exist throughout our entire body; like the gut-joint connection, the gut-brain connection and of course the gut-neuroimmune connection, which is of critical importance to those who want to reverse and alleviate their pain 100% naturally.
Summer Bock is a Trained Herbalist and Master Fermentationist, here with us today on the podcast to discuss how you can rebuild your gut with fermented foods. Her mission is for everyone to have stellar health by naturally healing their digestion using herbs, ferments and of course, food. She has a background of Microbiology and Pre-Med, which has given her the perfect skill set for integrating modern research into the modern microbiome. What I love the most about Summer Bock is that she’s a true innovator. When you look at her website, when you look at her training courses, when you look at her products and programs, for both those who are looking to improve their gut health as well as practitioners looking to learn more, you’ll realize that the contents she prepared is so innovative and so unique. That’s why I had to have her on the Healing Pain Podcast.
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Rebuilding the Gut with Fermented Food with Summer Bock
Summer, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks. I’m really excited to be here with you, Joe.
I first met Summer probably about four years ago. I was at a conference and she was sitting behind me and she started talking about this fermentation stuff. At the time, I probably had five years into studying nutrition but the thought of fermentation was something that was still a distant thought for me. I was like, “Are we talking about fermenting beer? What are we really talking about here?” Of course, we’re talking about something that’s much, much deeper and much, much more profound and the impact it has on your health. My first question for you, Summer is, how did you get started on this path? I think the combination of microbiology and fermentationist, herbalist is so unique and almost no one has that trio.
It started out, I was studying herbal medicine. I was in school. I did a cleanse during one of my classes, they’re like, “Try this out.” I’m like, “Okay.” About five days in, I felt like a wool blanket had been pulled out of my brain. I looked around, the world was crystal clear. I felt calm probably for the first time in my life. I had a thought, I was like, “This is how normal people get stuff done.” I had spent my teenage years coming home from school and just laying on the couch exhausted. I didn’t realize up until that point what I had been missing out on. I didn’t even realize at that point that I had been sick. Honestly, that moment has informed me so much in the work that I do because I was like, “People don’t realize that they could feel better than they are right now. They think that this is their normal or they think this is a part of aging.” That experience changed everything for me. I spent the next few years trying to figure out how to have that experience all the time without having to be on some prescriptive cleanse.
Fast forward, I graduated herbal medicine school, went on to pre-med. I was in my last class, in my last quarter in Organic Chemistry and I was sitting there double fisting a smoothie and a cappuccino and had a bar of chocolate open in front of me and it’s 9:30 AM. I wanted to feel good like I did during that cleanse but I had to get through the day and I had to drink this caffeine and eat a lot of chocolate and do all these things to keep my energy levels up so I could succeed at these classes. I was sitting in that class and I realized, “I don’t want to be a doctor. I don’t want to write prescriptions. That’s not the path for me.” I was in school there, I was studying pre-med and then I also shifted gears. I went to nutrition, studied at Columbia and at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. I did all three programs at the same time. I graduated on the same day for everything.
As I was wrapping up my education, I spent my time at that point focused on microbiology. It was my favorite class. I did a lot of independent projects studying actually mostly organisms that ferment foods. I got interested in this because when I was in college, I started getting sicker. Even though I had this awareness of how to be better, I got sicker. The stress, it just took me over the edge. I was struggling with IBS, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. I was having panic attacks sometimes in the middle of the night. I woke up one time my heart was beating 188 beats per minute from sleep. That’s terrifying and terrifying because you’re having a panic attack and then you find out your heart rate and you’re like, “Oh my gosh. Maybe I shouldn’t check that.”
I was allergic to pollen. I was really struggling with environmental allergies. I even became allergic to my cat. My food was down to about 20 or 30 foods that I knew that I could tolerate without having a reaction. I would go with friends to a restaurant and order food, take a bite, wait 20 minutes and see if I could eat it or not. Half of the time I’d be eating my meals in the back car seat on the way home from the restaurant out of a to-go box because I was just so reactive and I couldn’t figure out what it was. During that time, I went to my main doctor. She looked at me and she’s like, “What are you doing here?” I’m like, “Excuse me?” She goes, “I’m serious. What are you doing here? You know more about this than I do.”
I was working with her patients at that time, I was doing health coaching with them. I knew how to help other people get better, I just couldn’t figure out my own weird complex health issues. I looked at her and she goes, “Here’s what’s going to happen, I’m going to write you a prescription. I don’t think it’s going to do anything anyway. You’re not going to fill it. What are you doing here?” At that point, I was shocked. I went home dejected. My doctor, the person who’s supposed to save me when none of the alternative stuff will work, when none of this natural medicine is doing anything for me, they’re supposed to save me. She couldn’t. She looked at my blood work and everything. She’s like, “You’re freaking healthy.” I’m like, “There is no way this is healthy.” I can barely function.
I went home and I was like, “This is up to me. I was born in this world. I should not be allergic to it. I should be healthy. That is my natural state. I believe that. I’m going to heal myself with my allergies.” I just committed myself fully to that. I committed myself fully to being 100% responsible with my own health moving forward and not having her in my back pocket as an option. I really changed my approach. I started researching more. This is more than ten years ago. This is when you don’t just go online and look up gut stuff and probiotics, you didn’t look that up. I did a little bit more research and saw some things, “Maybe this is connected to the gut.”
I stopped taking herbs for my adrenals. I stopped taking herbs for my liver. I stopped taking herbs for the rashes and hives I was getting. I stopped taking herbs for allergies. I stopped all of the herbs for all the different things. I stopped taking the various supplements and I just focused on the gut. I was like, “Maybe it is the gut. I don’t really know. I’m going to try it and see.” When I did that approach, I really saw some major shifts. There are some things that I did during that approach that really allowed me to understand I am on the right track here. All these symptoms seemingly unrelated are all connected to my digestion.
We’re going to talk about a lot of those things on the podcast today. There’s something you said earlier on which I want to touch base on. I gave a nutrition lecture at the Physical Therapy NEXT and Exposition Conference. The lecture was the most popular lecture there was for the weekend which was awesome. I was so happy to talk to physical therapists about it. Later on that evening, a physical therapist came up to me when I was having dinner and she said, “I read things online so much and I read all the stuff about nutrition and foods and anti-inflammatory foods and pro-inflammatory foods. I read all these stuff about cleanses. It really bothers me because I feel like people should not be on a cleanse, it’s not healthy for them.”
I said to her, “It’s really interesting you say that because I have a patient right now who wanted to put herself on a cleanse.” She tried an anti-inflammatory diet and I had worked through all of her food sensitivities with her. She wanted to try a seven-day cleanse. I said, “Let’s do this. Let’s do it in the way that’s healthy to make sure you’re getting the right amount of nutrients, the right amount of calories into your diet.” She did the cleanse.
This particular patient had something that’s called CRPS, which is complex regional pain syndrome, which is one of the most ruthless and worst types of pain syndromes out there where it feels like you’ve stuck your hand into a pit of hot coals with spikes in it. Her pain level went from an eight to about a two in a matter of about seven days. I told this to this physical therapist who is very well-known actually. Her and I are good friends, Sandy Hilton. The patient got better from this cleanse. I can tell you that there’s a profound connection between the gut inflammation and what’s going on in the nervous system and the immune system. How do you explain what a cleanse is and who is it right for?
I tried many cleanses when I was training in school and just doing my own research. I tried things like the master clean with lemon and water and maple syrup and cayenne. It was not a good experience for me. I’ve tried all juice fast, all those things. I did it with friends and did with clients and just gather a lot of information from those experiences and realized, that may have worked 100 years ago when we didn’t have the amount of toxins that we have today. I think that the toxic accumulation in people’s body tissue, in their fat, in various places and even in their gut being created by all the microbes. So many people are dealing with dysbiosis. They’ve taken antibiotics a ton of times, they’re experiencing stress, they’ve been eating poor nutrition, they’re exposed to just so much junk. Even if you’re a clean eater, you’re still exposed to a lot of stuff. That sets you up to have dysbiosis where the wrong bacteria are growing in wrong amounts.
The excretions, their metabolic waste is what’s toxic for our system. Then you’re ending up with all of these metabolic waste that’s running through your blood stream. I call it the human sewer situation because they basically are a little metropolis inside your gut, your bloodstream is their sewer system. Your liver has to filter all of that. These metabolites can enter the blood-brain barrier and a lot of them affect the nervous system absolutely. I think one of the main ones that I encounter in my practice that I study the most is histamine. Histamine is produced by a fungi and by many bacteria as well. Histamine is also produced by our bodies and it’s an immune response. When these organisms start producing it like crazy, it overloads our system and it overloads the liver because now the liver has to breakdown that and it can’t deal with dopamine as well, it doesn’t deal with serotonin, it doesn’t deal with norepinephrine or epinephrine as well. It can really cause a lot of issues especially with the central nervous system. People will even see it show up as anxiety.
There’s this messy, messy situation going on in people’s bodies and when you do a cleanse, you can start to help correct it by starving off some of these bad bacteria. I say bad bacteria and good bacteria very loosely. It really is an ecosystem with cougars and rabbits and deer and coyotes where there are some predators in there and there are some good guys. There are plants and all of this flora and fauna is growing in there. There’s a balance. You need them all, you just need them in the right amounts. When I have people do a cleanse these days, I have one called the probiotic power cleanse. It’s a very gentle cleanse. I’m teaching them more about the foods to bring in. They’re eating food the entire time. Most people are dealing with insulin resistance, some blood-sugar imbalance.
Taking people off of a lot of food really quickly and depleting calories at the same time, it can be very ineffective. You end up in a lot of discomfort. You’re hungry, you’re grumpy, you’re detoxing and you’re experiencing all these emotions all at once from all the different systems that you’re opening up and triggering. You don’t need to go like that. I started to do my probiotic power cleanse and it worked with most people for a ten-day period. Then I noticed that I would work with some people who just couldn’t even handle that. That was still too deep.
That’s where I developed the process of gut rebuilding as well. I was like, “You actually can’t do this. We need to put you on a slower program where over the course of two months, you’re bringing in the right foods, taking out some foods that aren’t going to feed your microbiome well. We’re just going to take it slow because the body loves consistency. The body loves to know what to expect, “When are you going to eat tomorrow? When are you going to eat to go to bed?” All these basic things, the body wants to know the schedule. If you can give your body a great schedule and predictability, you’re going to produce the right enzymes to digest the food that it’s used to. Those organisms aren’t going to be constantly in more with each other because they’re not flourishing when this certain food item comes in and dying off when this other food item comes in or when the supplement that kills them off comes in. We’re very interested in these magic bullets and these one food that’s going to do it for me and we go crazy with that one food.
In my experience, things just need to be a little bit slower. I still do my power cleanse because what I had found is that when people get to have that experience like I had back when I first cleansed, it gives you the motivation to make the longer term changes and do it slow. I tried to deal with different kinds of people and different types of health situations and that’s why it’s like, “Which one’s going to work best for this person?”
I think it has its place with some people. Sometimes you just need a quick entry and then you may exist for a little while and you may come back to it in a different way like a longer cleanse or like you said you’re doing a two-month gut rebuilding program, which I think is wonderful. I think oftentimes you’re so focused on the 30 days now. Everything is like 30 days and I’m like, “30 days is really not enough to have that microbiome shift to have the inflammation in your body decrease.” To have the hormones in your brain, as you mentioned dopamine and serotonin, are a big deal especially when it comes to pain. I think two months, 60 days, is incredible. Talk us through your gut rebuilding and where did you start with people? Of course I really want to talk about probiotics.
Honestly, first I start with food. I get people to eat food that is more alkaline forming. There’s a lot of controversy out there. People are always like, “Let me see studies. What’s this little thing about alkaline eating? I don’t think that’s really proven.” I honestly hear that a lot. The truth is if you eat more alkaline foods, you generally feel better. Alkaline foods really are mostly fruits and vegetables and some of the grains can be if you prepare them properly. That’s where some of the concepts of fermentation come in. It’s also about decreasing more acidic foods and decreasing acidic behaviors and lifestyle. That’s step one. Just giving an inventory on where you’re at with how much alkaline forming things are you doing, how much acid forming things you’re doing. Tip the scales to where the percentage higher than what you’re doing. Some people come in doing mostly acid forming things, I’d be happy if they get to 50% alkaline forming. Some people need to go all the way up to 80% or 90% to start to see a shift in their body. It just depends. We start there.
Then second up is probiotics. I want to give them the food to feed the right environment and feed those probiotics. Probiotics is an interesting part of this journey because so many people are deficient in probiotics but there are a lot of really healthy probiotics that are not available in supplement form and they’re not available in fermented foods. They’re available through eating food that is grown in healthy soil. They’re available through the mucus lining being healthy in your gut and giving them the environment to grow in. It’s not just about probiotics. When people get really too focused on that and think that they’re taking that pill everyday and that’s doing enough, it’s not. They need to cultivate the right environment internally. Some people I haven’t go through this repopulation intensive, lots of probiotics for about a month where they really get their numbers up higher and start to let the natural organic acids such as lactic acid from these more probiotic bacteria will start to kill off some of the bacteria that shouldn’t be growing in such high quantities.
Fermented foods is a big one too. My preference is that people are getting most of their probiotics through fermented foods. For me when I started out I was like, “These are working.” Actually, I was taking probiotics back when I was figuring this stuff out. I was like, “I’m noticing a bigger difference from this than anything else I’ve tried.” Being trained as an herbalist, I asked myself, “How did my ancestors do this? 500 years ago, they weren’t taking a pill. What did they do? What is the whole food version of probiotics?” That’s when I really discovered, “That’s fermented foods. That’s what people are doing. There’s live cultures, live bacteria in these foods.” As well as many metabolites that help balance the microbiome and balance the pH of the intestines, things like that.
Fermented foods are an important part of this but I went crazy. I went overload with them of course because that’s just the normal thing we do in our culture. I’ve learned through my own mistakes that you really just need to use fermented food as a condiment but they need to be in your life. They have to be there but you don’t need to be chugging a full bottle of Kombucha every day. We don’t need to be eating half a jar of sauerkraut every day. You don’t need to be eating ten different kinds of ferment every day. Again, you want consistency for the body. You want to create this stability so that whole microbiome can start to flourish and balance out in a healthy manner.
You mentioned using probiotic as a condiment. Can you describe how you work that into your life? Is it at every meal or is it only once or maybe twice a day?
At this point in time, I just really listen to my body. When it sounds good, I eat it. Generally, I like kimchi a lot these days, summer time. I don’t know, it’s something about spicy food with summer time. I use kimchi on various dishes. I have it on average once every other day with one meal. I don’t go crazy with it. It’s just a very subtle amount at this point. In the beginning, people might need more. I think sometimes their bodies will crave more. I think once things get balanced out, you’d find a better rhythm with it.
You mentioned you dove into this head first. The question is, can you OD on probiotics and feel worse?
Depending on your situation, you can’t officially OD on probiotics. Essentially if you did too many more than your body could handle, you would probably just get diarrhea and it would just all get flushed out. There’s a number of different scenarios where this can happen, depending on their digestive capabilities, depending on the pH in different organs in their digestive system. I’ve watched people take a lot of probiotics and have it exacerbate symptoms of SIBO, or exacerbate symptoms of what’s called histamine intolerance or histamine overload which I think is more active.
I know there’s so much work being done in the microbiome and looking at all the specific bacteria in the gut. A lot of these studies, they just take one strain of, let’s say, lactobacillus or acidophilus in there. They tried this one strain for certain people. Do you think the future will be figuring out what the one strain is? Or is it going to be really more teaching people the skills where they are going to heal their gut and learning how to get the healthy bacteria that’s in their gut naturally to just repopulate?
I think there’s going to be two camps. I call it designer probiotics. At some point I don’t think it will ever be totally one strain. I do think that they’re going to try to mimic the microbiome of certain people based on their body type and their physical health. In cycling, there are people experimenting with poop doping, it’s what they call it, where they’re finding cyclists that have really great oxygen uptake red blood cells, really fantastic results with their racing and are overall very healthy. There are certain organisms that are better for you that show up in people who are more athletic. There are people who are getting samples essentially of their poop and doing an amount with it and getting those organisms to get into their body. Some people have seen amazing results with this. This is FMT, Fecal Microbiota Transplants. It’s really only proven with C. Diff. If somebody has a C. Diff infection, the FDA has approved the FMT before that. People are experimenting it in other mounts.
I don’t think that that’s an attractive method of getting bacteria for most people. I think that it’s going to always be more attractive to have a pill of some sort. I just see in some way that they’re going to replicate those people’s microbiomes and package them like, “Here’s for an athlete. Here’s for a slender person.” I can see all the things that we want being packaged up. I think it would be some brilliant marketing and a lot of people are going to love the idea of it. Again, when you come back to all of this, we live in a world where there’s bacteria absolutely everywhere. We act like we can manipulate the bacteria by throwing more bacteria into the situation and that would be like going out on your street and throwing a whole bunch of seeds and be like, “Let’s grow a garden here.” It’s not going to grow on concrete and that’s what you have in your system if you’d strip away all of the stuff. Part of it is really getting the right food in and getting your body time with a healthy environment to cleanse out a lot of that metabolic waste and cleanse out a lot of the inflammation and irritation that has been caused by decades of this for most people.
Most people have been sitting around decade’s worth of crud literally from these microorganisms irritating their tissues. That takes time to recover from. It’s not an instantaneous shift just by adding probiotics. In fact, as you were asking, “Are there downfalls to this?” Some people find that when they take a lot of probiotics, it can create die-off. It can create an actual fight from the organisms that can be dying off and they’re producing more stuff and it causes a state of stress for your body. It can be very uncomfortable. I think the bio strain is where it’s at; nourishing that environment, nourishing the bio strain so that it can support the ecosystem necessary for health.
I agree. I think the studies on single strains are fascinating. I think they’re obviously needed. I almost feel like if it goes in that direction, we almost start to treat things like a pharmaceutical medication, where it’s the one pill for the one ill. I personally don’t believe that when you look at the microbiome in its entirety and you’re looking at bacteria and other microorganisms and fungi and everything that’s in there. I don’t believe anyone’s ever going to be able to create a pill that can mimic that. If you want the microbiome of an Olympic gymnast, maybe you can do that through a fecal transplant but I don’t think that’s for the average person. The average person is going to go your website, SummerBock.com or they’re maybe going to the grocery store or do both and then look for what are the right fermented foods and what are the right probiotics. When you work with your clients, what type of information and education do you give to them about going into, let’s say, a big-box supermarket and just picking the first probiotic off the shelf that says, “Healthy flora you,” and using that one?
This is a tricky situation because so many of the probiotics out on the shelves don’t have very strong potency. The way that they test them and the way that they shut them all these things, they try to be careful, they try to keep it cold but oftentimes you’re not seeing the numbers that are actually represented on those labels. There are human studies that have shown that they’re not even seeing the same strains of bacteria that are on the labels and then finding other bacteria that aren’t even listed on the labels. That’s problematic. There’s no one governing this outside of the FDA, but the FDA isn’t testing all of these products individually and seeing how they show up under the microscope. It’s a completely wild west world of the supplement industry.
In general, I would recommend that people use reputable sources. There’s one over-the-counter one that I’ve seen really good effects with. It’s called PB 8. It’s a very affordable one. There’s a vegan option as well. It’s Probiotic 8. PB 8 is pretty good. I really like some of the companies like Clear Labs, Designs for Health and Seeking Health, I’ve seen good results with theirs as well. Then there’s many higher level ones that are pharmaceutical breaking all of that, right now just from my experience, those are the ones I normally stick to. I sell one as well that’s made by Designs for Health. I’m very happy with it. I think it’s a great probiotic. You have to do your research and part of that research is that when you take it, you need to see results. You need to see something shift in your digestion. It will make a difference in the way your stool looks, the way that you pass it. If you’re not seeing that difference, either you’re not taking enough or you’re using a brand that just isn’t quality.
I love coconut kefir. I make it here. I don’t even remember where I started it because I just use a little bit each time to make the next batch. Why should everyone try at least once in their week, let’s say, to make a good batch of something that’s a probiotic food?
You’re right, this is my thing. I think everybody should try to make a fermented food because what you’re doing is you’re playing with bacteria and you’re starting your relationship with bacteria. Coconut kefir is a great example. Sauerkraut is another really easy one because you don’t need a started culture for it. I have tutorials on this on my YouTube channel. You basically chop up cabbage, add some salt, stuff it down into a jar or a crock. You let it sit for 7 to 21 days, is pretty average on your counter at room temperature. At the end of that time period, you scrape off the top layer and reach down in there and you taste that. That process for most people is a major paradigm shift. It was for me because you’re like, “This food has been sitting in the danger zone.” If you ever work in the service industry, the Health Department will tell you all about the danger zone, “It’s room temperature. It’s where bacteria grow really well.” You’re letting this food sit out and essentially rot based on everything you’ve ever been told and it may even grow a little bit of mold on it. Mold is sometimes a part of the process.
There are really sophisticated ways to make it these days that don’t involve that. I use airlocks and things. You then scrape all that off and you’re eating something that has literally in your mind been rotting on your countertop and your first question is going to be yourself, “Am I about to kill myself? Am I going to die? Am I going to poison myself eating this? Do I want to share this with others? Are they going to be okay?” It really is a transformative moment. Did you ever have that experience when you were first trying it for the first time?
It’s so interesting, as you sit here and talk about this, my mouth is watering. I’ve eaten probiotic foods for a couple of years now. Like you said, the average food professional will tell you, “You’re going to get bacteria in that food. It’s not good for you. There’s something at room temperature, things just really rot there. My mouth wouldn’t water unless it was something that’s good for me. When something is bad for you, your mouth doesn’t water, you don’t get hungry, your digestion doesn’t start to increase. As you talk about this, I’ve made my own cabbage and I’ve made my own kimchi and I’ve made my own kefir, my mouth starts to water because my body knows it’s good for me. On some level, when you go back to a really deep Paleolithic level, if you will, this stuff was in our diet on multiple, multiple levels and it really should be in your diet today.
You’re speaking to one of the main things that I teach of gut rebuilding which is that ultimately, what you have to learn how to heal is your relationship with your gut instinct. Your gut instinct tells you what food it needs. Your body knows what it needs. When things turn balanced, it’s hard to hear. You’re listening to the voices of all these bacteria and fungi. They actually can send chemicals to your nervous system that tell you, “I want more sugar.” It sends all kinds of chemical messages throughout your body to tell your body what to do. When you have that at play, when you have insulin issues where you’re craving sugar as well, you can have a lot of voices that are competing but ultimately, you want to learn how to listen to that voice in your belly like your gut instinct. Animals don’t need nutritionists. They happen to figure out how to get their nutritional needs met without a label that says, “This is how much of the RDA recommendation this has.” I think it’s really important to start to tap into that. You’re right, you will start to have a match up integrity between your taste buds and your gut to where they line up.
I work with people who would try fermented foods the first time and they didn’t like it. They would come back a week later and buy some from me because it was all they could think about for the next week. Even though their taste buds didn’t like it, they weren’t used to it. Their body was willing to change their taste buds and say, “We like this now because that was awesome. That was fantastic.” There are so much information in a fermented food for your body. There’s so much information there. Your body literally reads that like a book. It’s saying, “I like this book. I want to read this as much I can. Please give me more.”
It’s data that’s downloaded through your gut that travels to the rest of your body and has really an incredible value for healing, not only your gut but also all the extra intestinal symptoms that so many people struggle with. We have been talking with Summer Bock as a Trained Herbalist and Master Fermentationist. You can of course, visit her website at www.SummerBock.com. Summer has a great gift for us. Please tell everyone on the podcast how they can learn more about you and the wonderful bonus you have.
I have a webinar talking about gut rebuilding more in-depth that’s called the 3 Mistakes That Most People Make When Trying to Fix Their Gut. I love for you guys to watch it. It’s fun. We go more in-depth. We actually talk even a little bit more about lifestyle and some of the emotional components of healing the gut as well besides some of these physical things. You can find it at GutRebuilding.com/DrJoe.
Please check that out, GutRebuilding.com/DrJoe. I want to thank Summer Bock for being on the Healing Pain Podcast. At the end of every podcast I ask you to make sure you go on iTunes and give us a five-star review and of course share this with your friends and family so they have all the great information that we spread today. Thank you for being on the Healing Pain Podcast, Summer. We’ll see everyone next week.
About Summer Bock
Summer Bock is a trained Herbalist & Master Fermentationist, here with us today on the podcast to discuss Rebuilding the Gut with Fermented Foods. Summer’s mission is for everyone to have stellar health naturally by healing their digestion using herbs, ferments, and food. Her background in microbiology and pre-med has given her the perfect skillset for integrating the modern research in the microbiome with her traditional studies in herbalism and using food as medicine. And what I love the most about Summer Bock is she is a true innovator and when you look at her website and the content she has prepared for you on her website at summerbock.com it will be immediately apparent.
You can download her free eBook at www.summerbock.com
URL- www.summerbock.com
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